From Struggle to Strategy: Interviewing Customers with The JTBD Pyramid™

Customer interviews are messy. They zig, they zag, and often end in rabbit holes you didn’t expect. One moment you’re hearing about a product quirk, the next you’re deep in a story about their frustrations with internal approvals or onboarding new team members.

That’s the nature of real conversations. And it’s exactly why structure matters.

This article brings together the core ideas from my first two books—The Statue in the Stone and The Jobs-to-be-Done Pyramid™. If The Statue in the Stone was about mindset (learning to see customer struggles and uncovering their errors), then The JTBD Pyramid is about architecture. Using a structure to organize those insights and go deeper.

Together, they form a powerful approach to qualitative interviews:

• We begin with what a customer is trying to accomplish (the job).
• Then we explore what’s difficult, unpredictable, inefficient, or emotionally frustrating about that job.
• And we use the Pyramid to guide us, level-by-level, from product interactions to core goals, identity, and emotion.

If you’ve ever wondered how to run a truly strategic customer interview that surfaces not just surface preferences but also the deep drivers of behavior, then this is your map.

Our goal isn’t to hear what customers like. It’s to understand what they’re trying to do, and what’s getting in the way.

Let’s begin at the bottom of the Pyramid.

Level 1 – Product Jobs: “Walk me through your product experiences.”

We begin at the base of the JTBD Pyramid™ with Product Jobs. These are the logistical, task-based jobs surrounding the product itself: how it’s purchased, set up, used, maintained, and eventually retired or replaced.

This is where the customer’s journey becomes visible. You can observe it, map it, even film it. But the truth is, product jobs (called “consumption jobs” in classical jobs-to-be-done) are a goldmine of opportunities because they expose product frictions.

In The Statue in the Stone, I repeated Tony Ulwick’s core tenet of Outcome-Driven Innovation, that innovation begins by uncovering what’s difficult, inefficient, or unpredictable. Product Jobs are often where those issues first appear.

Ask your customer:

(These are opening questions. Be sure to follow up with “why,” “how,” and “tell me more” to dig deeper.)

• Tell me about your purchase experience.
  What were you trying to find? What mattered most in your selection process?
• How did you select the product you purchased?
  What made you choose it over other options?
• Tell me about learning to use the product.
  What was intuitive? What required trial and error?
• What did you find frustrating or difficult when using the product?
  Were there moments that felt clumsy, slow, awkward, or error-prone?
• What challenges did you face in maintaining the product?
  Did it require upkeep you didn’t expect? Did anything feel like a chore?
• What issues did you encounter when storing the product?
  Was it bulky, fragile, easy to misplace?
• Describe your experience disposing of or retiring the product.
  Did you sell it, recycle it, throw it out? Was that process smooth or frustrating?

What to listen for:

• Tasks that are time-consuming, unpredictable, or uncomfortable
• Emotional cues—frustration, confusion, workarounds, or silent tolerances
• Complaints that begin with “I wish it just…” or “Why doesn’t it…”

This level isn’t just about usability. It’s about lifecycle. Every step the customer takes with the product… before, during, and after use… is a potential source of friction. And every friction point is an opportunity for innovation.

If a customer says, “The hardest part wasn’t using it, it was getting started,” that’s gold. Don’t move on too quickly. Ask what made it hard, what they did next, what they wish had been different.

When you fully understand the Product Jobs, you’re no longer guessing at “pain points.” You’re watching the customer chisel the statue themselves. You just have to see what’s getting in the way.

Level 2 – Core Jobs: “What are you trying to accomplish?”

Once you understand what the customer did with the product, it’s time to climb one level up the JTBD Pyramid™, to what they were trying to accomplish. Core Jobs are the fundamental, solution-agnostic goals that drove them to seek out a product in the first place.

These jobs often sound simple: “Diagnose an issue,” “Stay warm,” “Keep food fresh,” “Monitor safety.” Be patient and build this list as large as you can. These jobs will become the core of your strategy.

In Level 2, we’re seeking solution-independent jobs. If you make lawn tractors, your Level 1 questions will be about buying the mower, learning to use the mower, maintaining the mower, etc., but your Level 2 questions should reveal objectives such as:

• Mow the yard
• Beautify my property
• Etc.

For some products, such as a microwave oven, this list will be small, “Cook food” or “Heat food.” But for other products, it can be deceptively long. You might hire coffee for hydration, for energy, or for taste. In B2B, if you make ingredients or components, the list could be quite long.

Regardless, we must begin with building this job inventory. If the list is short, then spend your time going deep within the small set of job(s) to gather the desired outcomes for each. If it’s a long list, then you might spend all this time building out this job inventory.

In The Statue in the Stone, I emphasized the importance of starting with intent. Customers don’t buy products for their features. They buy them to get something done. But they rarely use our exact language when describing it. That’s where good interviewing comes in.

Ask your customer:

• Why did you purchase the product?
  What was going on that made you go looking for a solution?
• What tasks were you trying to complete with it?
  What were you hoping it would help you do?
• What outcomes were you hoping to achieve?
  What would success have looked like?
• What was difficult, frustrating, or inefficient about accomplishing those tasks?
  Where did things fall short?

What to listen for:

• Statements like “I just needed a way to…” or “The main thing I wanted was…”
• Evidence of friction, failure, or compromise; what made the job hard to do
• Gaps between the customer’s expectation and reality

Your job here is to isolate the Core Job from the product. For example, if someone says, “I bought this to monitor my water quality,” that’s a good start. But keep going. What aspect of water quality? For what purpose? What happens if that job goes wrong?

You’re looking for a clear, functional goal. Something that could, in theory, be accomplished in many different ways—not just with your product. When you name that goal clearly, you’ve identified the customer’s real market.

And when you understand what makes that job difficult, you’ve found your raw material for innovation.

Level 3 – Role Identity Jobs: “Who are you trying to become with this product?”

Now we leave the world of tasks and enter the world of identity. At Level 3 of the JTBD Pyramid™, we’re no longer just asking what the customer wants to accomplish. Now, we’re exploring who they are trying to become in the process.

Customers are doing more than just completing a job. They’re trying to live into a role: to be a good parent, a respected engineer, a creative teacher, a decisive leader. These roles carry with them a set of expectations that influence how people choose products, what they value, and what they fear.

Most innovation efforts overlook this layer entirely. But if you can help a customer live more fully into the role they aspire to play, you’re not just solving a problem. You’re becoming part of their identity. And that, friend, will provide you with lasting loyalty.

Ask your customer:

• If you could accomplish those tasks well, who would that help you become?
• If you struggle to accomplish them, who does that prevent you from becoming?

Optional follow-up prompt: “Which of these identities feel relevant in this situation?”

Offer the following list (you don’t need to use all of them—choose what fits your context):

• A survivor (someone who endures, adapts, or overcomes hardship)
• A rebel or resistor (someone who challenges the status quo or asserts independence)
• A protector (someone who safeguards people, resources, or systems)
• An achiever (someone who performs, delivers results, or meets high standards)
• A creator (someone who builds, innovates, or brings ideas to life)
• An explorer (someone who seeks discovery, learning, or new frontiers)
• A servant or helper (someone who supports others, teaches, or provides care)
• A member of a group (someone who belongs to a profession, tribe, or cause)
• A leader (someone who sets direction, earns trust, and takes responsibility)

What to listen for:

• Phrases like “I want to be the kind of person who…” or “People count on me to…”
• Signs of aspirational tension—what they hope to become vs. what’s holding them back
• Clues about what’s at stake—reputation, pride, mission, or self-worth

Customers might not have crisp answers at first. They may start with a shrug. But with a little space and curiosity, they’ll often say something revealing like:

“I just want to be the kind of person who knows they made the right call.”

Or,

“If I mess this up, it reflects on me, not the tool.”

That’s identity talking.

When you understand what role your customer is trying to play—and how your solution helps or hinders that role—you unlock new ways to differentiate. You’re no longer selling a tool. You’re helping someone become who they want to be.

Level 4 – Image Identity Jobs: “How do you want to be seen?”

If Level 3 is about becoming, Level 4 is about being seen.

Here at the fourth level of the JTBD Pyramid™, we explore how customers want to be perceived both by themselves and by others. These are Image Identity Jobs, and they reflect the human desire to maintain a certain self-image or reputation in a given context.

While The Statue in the Stone focused on identifying what’s difficult, inefficient, or frustrating (so we can help customers accomplish their jobs with fewer errors) The JTBD Pyramid™ adds the structure to explore why those errors matter so deeply. Often, it’s because the job impacts how customers feel about themselves or how others perceive them.

When something goes wrong, it’s rarely just about time or money. It’s also about credibility, competence, and self-respect.

Ask your customer:

• If you could do these tasks well, how would you see yourself?
• How would you want others to see you as a result?
  (Colleagues, clients, peers, friends, family?)

What to listen for:

• Self-image phrases: “I’d feel like I’m on top of it,” “Like I know what I’m doing”
• Reputation phrases: “I don’t want to look like I’m clueless,” “They need to see me as reliable”
• Signals of fear of judgment, professional risk, or social comparison

These jobs often stay beneath the surface in interviews unless you intentionally explore them. But they have real consequences. A customer may never say “I’m buying this so I appear competent to my team,” but they will talk about how failure makes them feel: embarrassed, unsure, exposed.

Your job as a moderator is to surface those subtle identity stakes. Ask what they hope others notice when things go well. Ask what they fear when things don’t.

These aren’t just vanity jobs. They’re part of the invisible pressure field customers live within. And when your product reduces the chance of failure or helps them feel proud of how they handled a situation, you’re not just solving a problem.

You’re protecting an identity.

Level 5 – Emotional Jobs: “How do you want to feel?”

We’ve reached the top of the JTBD Pyramid™: the layer of Emotional Jobs.

This is where we ask about feelings: the ones customers seek to experience in the moment, and the ones they hope to avoid. These jobs are rarely stated outright, but they shape nearly every interaction. If a product creates anxiety, even if it “works,” it will be replaced. If it creates calm, confidence, or delight, it builds loyalty.

The JTBD Pyramid™ gives us a narrow definition of emotional jobs: the way we want to feel or avoid feeling when using a product OR along our path to accomplish a task.

Ask your customer:

• Imagine you’re using this product successfully. What emotions would you experience?
• Now imagine things aren’t going well. What feelings would you have that you’d rather avoid?
• How would it feel to successfully complete the tasks we discussed earlier?
• How would it feel to live into the identity you described at Level 3?
• How would it feel to be perceived the way you described at Level 4?

What to listen for:

• Positive emotions: “reassured,” “confident,” “relieved,” “empowered,” “calm,” “in control”
• Negative emotions: “anxious,” “stressed,” “worried,” “overwhelmed,” “ashamed,” “uncertain”
• Subtle shifts in tone—this level is often revealed in how something is said, not just what is said

Emotional Jobs are the final sculpting layer. They shape the feel of the experience, even when everything else is working. A task may be completed perfectly, and yet leave the customer feeling nervous, rushed, or unsupported. In that case, the job isn’t done.

When you identify emotional friction, you uncover opportunities to build trust, reduce stress, and create connection. These are not luxuries—they are differentiators.

Because at the end of the day, the best products don’t just work.
They make people feel the way they want to feel.

From Insight to Advantage

When you combine the mindset of The Statue in the Stone with the structure of The Jobs-to-be-Done Pyramid™, you have a model for an amazing, insightful, customer interview.

The Statue in the Stone reminds us that we’re looking for problems, and that innovation starts with struggle. We help customers not by guessing what they want, but by uncovering what’s hard, frustrating, unpredictable, etc. Our job is to chip away everything that stands between the customer and their desired progress.

The JTBD Pyramid™ gives us a way to do that systematically. It shows us that customers operate across five motivational levels, not just one. And it helps us walk upward, from task to purpose, from purpose to identity, from identity to emotion.

Each level reveals a new kind of struggle.
Each level presents new opportunities to differentiate.

Here’s what that looks like in practice:

• At Level 1, we learn how the customer interacts with the product and where they hit snags.
• At Level 2, we uncover the real job they were trying to accomplish and why it’s hard.
• At Level 3, we discover who they are trying to become and how failure threatens that.
• At Level 4, we surface how they want to be seen by others and by themselves.
• At Level 5, we expose the emotional terrain what they want to feel and what they want to avoid.

With this structure, we can build an actionable list of customer needs. These will shape strategies for products, brand messaging, packaging and pricing. Because when we see the full picture that the customer sees, we’ll know exactly where to chip away at the stone.

For more on this model, click the image below to access the book, The Jobs-to-be-Done Pyramid™  or visit www.JTBDPyramid.com.